A Conversation with Edo de Waart and Waltraud Meier

On March 16 conductor Edo de Waart and mezzo-soprano Waltraud Meier, in Boston for a BSO concert (see the following review), gave a talk at Harvard University’s Paine Hall entitled “Wagner in Theory and Practice.” This event was cosponsored by the Music Department of the BSO and the Humanities Center of Harvard University. Here is an abridged, somewhat paraphrased synopsis.

De Waart: In Walküre, Act 1, there are 224 measures, 119 of which are for the orchestra. [Thus] Wagner’s musical gestures dictate stage deportment.
Meier: Everything that should be done onstage is written in the music—not everything, but the inner story of the action. Wagner composed [the music] as something that changes you or gives something to you. After Siegmund drinks [the] water [offered by Sieglinde], he is mentally changed.
De Waart: You can choose to offset what happens onstage with the music in the pit, although some directors don’t trust the music; that really upsets me.

On the challenges of Bayreuth
Meier: [Bayreuth operated] on the idea that the opera is a work in progress. I was at Bayreuth for 17 seasons, until 2000. They repeat productions for five to seven years and try to keep the same cast. [In this way] the director has a chance to change things in the following year, which can’t be done in opera houses with the repertoire system. The Chereau Ring was different in its first year from its last year. In Bayreuth the sound builds up, goes first to the stage, then mixes with the voices, and then goes to the audience. This is what makes it special. The audience is not distracted by anything.
De Waart: The problem with the orchestra there is that it makes a lot of noise, making it impossible to hear the singers. It’s mind-bogglingly impossible [to conduct].
Meier: The orchestra is very loud. At first I gave it all I had, but I was screaming. Everywhere else you have to be a little bit ahead of the beat, but in Bayreuth you can sing at the same time [as the beat].

On the condensed Ring cycle
De Waart: This [condensed version, arranged by Henk de Vlieger] is a labor of love, and it’s practical. Some critics thought that it can’t be done with Wagner, but it works. Audiences like it. You bring this music in front of an audience that doesn’t see opera a lot. It gives people an opportunity to hear the music, then buy a CD [set] of the complete cycle, and then see a production of it. It’s meant to be an introduction.

On Wagner performed in English
Meier: The text is not only the carrier of the story but is music itself. When you translate it, you have the main idea of the phrase somewhere else. It’s misguided.
De Waart: Singers know with every word what to intone and the rhythm of the language. Can you imagine Carmen in Dutch? [Laughter.] It’s as sexy as this glass of water [pointing to the glass]. . . . There are no accidents in Wagner. I do not see a lot of weaknesses in his music, not even in Tannhäuser.

More generally
Meier: The most important thing in [singing] Wagner is that the voice changes the music. You have to be very careful whether to stress the sound [which conveys the emotions] or the text [which advances the plot]. Sometimes the emotional part is [played by] an instrument. Often singers think they have to sing in the same style; this is not true. They need to change the colors. In Wagner [the music] changes from one second to another. . . . Opera is not only about beauty but about everything in life, and sometimes you have to make it ugly. You play with vibrato and create harsh sounds.
De Waart: The anvils in Das Rheingold have to hurt. Everyone thinks [that music] is ugly. The first Ring cycle I heard was Solti’s. I was exhilarated. Everybody’s first exposure should be like that. You sit there and are bowled over by Wagner coming at you like a juggernaut. It’s a lifelong quest.
Meier: I never heard Wagner live until I was 20. I bought tickets to Bayreuth and the text and then sat there, and my attention was completely taken, grasped by that experience. Wagner’s text is meant to be sung; you cannot read it. And it’s new every time. As [conductor] Bruno Walter said, each time “it is always the first time.”